“The president single-handedly wiped out Americans’ retirement savings overnight and subjected businesses to intense whiplash with his increasingly erratic and chaotic policies that continue to drive consumer and business uncertainty.”
All we need now is a massive man made natural disaster to strike to make it another great depression. Luckily there isn’t any terrible climate related issue that’s on the verge of causing a catastrophe or anything.
That, and good thing there isn’t a new pandemic brewing in birds and livestock.
Thank god 80% of the bees we use to pollinate all our food didn’t die this last month…
At least we don’t have a measles outbreak and an anti-vaxxer in charge
So repubs are alientating themselves from their traditional business base too. That leaves what? Nut jobs in rvs covered in trump signs?
60% chance of recession, 40% chance of a depression. “The Greatest Depression”
A golden age is coming!
Even if things just to recover to where they started trumsk will claim it as a giant win.
Tremendous, really. Like nothing ever seen before.
I’d love to see donvict, fElon, Lutnick, Thiel, Vance and especially Navarro forced to live in poverty for a while.
Even if Trump removes every tariff a recession is almost certainly coming. Short to longer term planning, hiring, building, etc will certainly slow down and that kind of things is widespread. People lose jobs, people don’t get hired, people choose not to start a business or invest money in the USA, etc.
deleted by creator
The MAGA Nazis are fully embracing AI, and full automation is on its way. All the tech exists right now to fully automate every fast food outlet in America. The could have the supplies stored in robotic warehouses, robotically loaded into self-driving trucks, unloaded into the restaurants robotically, prepared robotically, and delivered to the customer, who ordered it on an app or kiosk. All without a single human touching it anywhere along the way.
Corporations will become wildly profitable with greatly reduced cost of labor and related labor issues (HR, benefits, discrimination, etc), but the additional result will be the loss of millions of entry level and unskilled jobs. These are the jobs where young people learn how to exist in the workplace, where households can have a second income, where people can become managers and make decent livings, etc. And that is only one industry. Every single industry will be impacted by automation and AI, with an enormous net loss of jobs, leading to a permanent unemployment rate in the double digits, possibly as high as 30-40%, or even higher. The impact on the government and our economy of the loss of income tax revenue from those lost jobs is a whole other conversation altogether.
What will happen to all those unemployed people? There seems to be only two solutions: Universal Basic Income, or reducing the population by the permanent unemployment rate. It’s pretty predictable which solution each party would choose, and also pretty predictable how they would choose to accomplish their solution.
UBI is never going to come to the united states. Whats reasonably to going to happen is an uprising and the brutal suppression of it by the police state a la Tianenmen square style or even worse. US have done this against people of color multiple times in its history. This time others will join as well.
This time may be different because the police may have a lot greater reason to join the people than they did in the past. The police’s retirements were also wiped out, and the police’s family members are a lot more likely to have been affected by those tariffs. I think it’s too pessimistic to say what you’re saying, because the number of people affected now is significantly greater.
An uprising seems likely, and an attempt at brutal suppression also seems likely, but the United States regime has also made enemies of almost every other country on the planet, and the groundswell of people is very large. The number of people in the protests today was massive:
https://www.reddit.com/r/50501/
If you see the sheer numbers, it’s enough to give hope.
UBI is a variation on Trickle Up economics, which we know works well to stimulate the economy, because every time they’ve made money available to those at the bottom, like the Covid checks, the economy has boomed. The money will eventually end up in the hands of the wealthy anyway, but it will grease the cogs of the economy on the way. The only reason they want the money to go straight from the government to themselves is because they dont want the people getting used to not worrying about our bills. Worried people will accept more employment abuse.
Trickle Down is unsustainable, and reaching the end of it’s run. If they dont get with the program, and start embracing Trickle Up solutions, the citizens are going introduce Robin Hood Economics - Rob from the rich, give to the poor - and they arent going to like that at all.
This assumes that the citizens are capable of fighting back against an armed state which protects the oligarchs. The monopoly of state on violence enforced by the personal cults of various billionaires will quench any chance of a revolution. Add to this the surveillance of means of organizing like sms, signal etc and you get a perfect police state under the control of few. The ideal solution would then be to eliminate the impoverished basic class and live off the land. The only disadvantage is probably the stunting of genetic lineages some generations after. So they might keep some of the impoverished around to make sure that they can keep the genetic pool diverse.
So they might keep some of the impoverished around to make sure that they can keep the genetic pool diverse.
And as a source of replacement organs, tissues, and fluids when they reach advanced age. After all, they’re stripping everything else for parts, who to say they’ll stop just before putting poors under the knife to strip us for parts?
That too. It will just be like pigs or chicken now.
There’s only profit to be made if people have money to spend.
And people will have money, If they take a credit and work for less, then an AI would cost, to have enough for the pay the credit card interests.
Not to forget the ability to let middle management go when there are no workers to be managed as well as the people for low level optimization and planning.
This is a major thing and the reactions are unfortunately downvotes.
The ripple effects will be huge, and touch every industry and every citizen.
I’ll gladly take the downvotes if it gets people thinking about the reality of the future the Sociopathic Oligarchs have planned for us.
To put this in terms Civ VI players will understand:
MAGA wants a synthetic technocracy
If Europe follows the Estonian model it will be a digital democracy.
China is doing optimization imperative.
No, no, and thrice no.
Technocracy implies a ruling elite of experts in their field, individuals with actual learning and genuine expertise in their given fields.
This is fascist plutocracyb government by the hyper-rich with no more qualifications than “I have no morals and am willing to climb over others’ faces while wearing steel spikes to get yet more.”
There is a world of difference.
China is likely to get AI before the US does. Innovation here is slowing down.
Companies are drooling at the prospect of replacing workers - it was several years ago when I attended a talk that was about how mining companies are seeking to automate all of it - this around the time when people like donvict were talking up coal-mining jobs and of course the magoffs piled on - if people looking to prop up that industry think it will result in lots of good-paying jobs with dignity, I have a bridge to sell them.
And that’s just one instance…
Mining is a terrible job for humans to do. Automating it has saved millions from death by Black Lung or cave ins or a thousand other things that can kill you in a mine.
The problem is with the notion that everyone needs a job. We could employ everyone if we paid them to dig a hole and fill it in every day. We could be living like retirees, but all of us need to go to a job for eight hours because an anti-Semite wanted to steal workers from his competitors.
I’m fine with automation if we can have fully automated luxury communism!
Add in “gay space” and I’ll agree
Yep. Not sure why you are getting downvoted.
A lot of Americans can’t handle the truth. They better start facing it, though, because its going to get a lot worse before it gets better. It’s almost certainly going to close in on Great Depression territory, but whats really scary is that we stand a reasonable chance of reaching Nazi Germany/ Final Solution territory. These people are not only capable of it, but they have been promoting it for years. They lie about a lot of stuff, but Ive learned to take them at their word on things like this.
The possibility of a situation like this is why people never succeeded in repealing the second amendment.
And whether or not we agreed with that fact, it is likely to have some effect on the situation now.
It’s 100% they are just too scared to say that
You can’t say anything is 100% with a chaotic and erratic president. There’s always a chance that Trump will undo everything next week and things will stabilise for a short while. That chance might be very low, but it effectively invalidates 100% prediction.
I’m afraid you’re wrong here actually. Being arbitrary and mercurial means no one will risk investing in the US, as policies may be created or undone at any moment. The only way this goes away is simply that he goes away. The risk is what is creating the certainty here.
It still isn’t 100%
There’s also an even more remote chance Republicans in Congress grow a spine and take away Trump’s ability to set tariffs or the Supreme Court rules the “emergency” invalid.
Ok, 95%. Trump undoing things doesn’t actually help “confidence in the market” though, it might even cause or chaos shorter term.
The blood is on gop hands and any billionaires backing him
And nothing gets better until billionaires bleed
And the people who voted for him. And the people that didn’t vote.
The Federal Reserve now projects -3.7% GDP growth in Q1 2025. The 2008 recession was -2.6%, and covid was -2.2, for comparison.
They predict -3.7% if yesterday was somehow the end of it, but we know it’s not.
-3.7% would be a dream compared to what’s actually likely.
Consider this too…Q1 ended on March 31st. They are predicting that drop before all this tariff shit got started.
Hell, Biden was president for 20 of the 90 days in that quarter.
So you’re saying it’s Bidens fault! /s
That… Doesn’t seem good if I’m being totally honest
-3.7% so far.
Do you have a source? Closest of what I can find is GDPNow https://www.atlantafed.org/cqer/research/gdpnow . But it is neither an official estimate nor from the federal reserve.
And note that the Atlanta Fed model has been widely misinterpreted. Imports have surged in anticipation of tariffs, which skews the model (i.e. the exports-imports factor in GDP).
That is the federal reserve. It’s composed of 12 district banks and that’s one of them.
I thought federal reserve refers to the federal reserve board. And I am also surprised that the fedral reserve banks’ website don’t get .gov domains.
Not trying to argue with you, the name “federal reserve” is inheritly ambiguous. I am just stating my reason for my original post.
Yeah, it’s definitely confusing, and the news is always loose with the terminology.
The Federal Reserve is the entire system. The board sets policy and the 12 district banks execute it. It’s this weird quasi-governmental thing. Nominally it’s supposed to be independent and not part of the government even though it was created by an act of Congress and the board is appointed by the president. The idea is that by making it independent, it’ll be free from political influence and can focus on its mission, including making tough decisions that will cause pain in the short term.
And I am also surprised that the fedral reserve banks’ website don’t get .gov domains.
The fed is explicitly not a government agency. It is meant to be independent by design.
Trump pulled a Mario on the billionaires lmao 🤣
And y’all complaining
In case you haven’t seen it there has been blood all over the place for years
Not long until MAGAs call the stock market woke.
Alternate TRUTH market incoming
They already had indexes which avoided ‘dei’ companies… Don’t ask me how I know…
How do you know?
Giving family members financial advice. They were in a terrible fund, and wanted to move. But had to make sure it wasn’t too a company supporting dei…
I’d love to ask them to define a “company supporting dei”?
It’s in the company’s charter explicitly for many investing companies.
Bummer
How was Thursday and Friday not a recession? I lost > 10% of my 401k in 2 days.
It took 4 years to get to where it was since I stopped contributing right after the 2020 panic. 4 years of happily let my money do what it should, BAM wiped out in 2 fucking days.
I’ve Lost 15% since this shitshow of president started fucking with things.
Came here to note that S&P has been down over 16% since the clown took the WH and the circus started back up again.
10% so far unfortunately.
Recessions officially require a slowdown of an economy over a longer period of time. Usually the stock market has nothing to do with it, though it can be a canary in the coal mine for it.
A recession has more to do with unemployment rate rising, negative GDP growth and consumer spending indexes falling.
Essentially it’s just a fancy way of saying the economy is slowing down in every category.
The stock market is a rich person’s playground in this day and age mostly.
The stock market is a rich person’s playground in this day and age mostly.
Unfortunately, if they do poorly, THAT definitely “trickles down”.
it’s not an exact measure, but the rule of thumb for a recession is 2 quarters of negative growth
there is 7 quarters remaining. Dumpf will bring the greatest depression in american history and if reserve currency moves away from dollar, there will be wars. Thucydides trap is here and better be prepared.
I wonder why they waited until just after the first quarter. Hmmmmm…
Get your 401k out of stocks for now. Most plans have money market or other options you can exchange for.
Panic drop out of the market after stocks went down some percent, great advice.
Just do nothing and keep your rates (or however US 401k works).
Time in the market beats timing the market
I guess. Other option is to ride it all the way down. I got mostly out after the election. I got the rest of the way out this year.
That’s the dumbest advice ever! That’s how you lose all your money. Recession is the perfect time to buy even more stocks and shares. Don’t get out, get in!
Recession is a good time - at the bottom.
We’re still at the top.
You guys have fun losing all your money, though. Like the person I replied to complained about.
The only one losing money is you.
…how?
Selling near the top and buying near the bottom…?
You’re doing the exact opposite.
Howso?
What are you going to convert your stocks into Euros? Renminbi? USD? Bitcoin? There is just a lot of uncertainty, and I wouldn’t recommend anyone selling everything.
deleted by creator
Trump is gonna try his best to make the best depression ever.
He heard “great depression” and took it as a challenge
Yuge Depression. Like sinkhole levels.
“great depression”
Well… at least we know now what he meant by make America “great” again.
Greater Depression
People say it’s the greatest!
Trump Depression isn’t only for Tiffany
Make Depression Great Again
Make Great Depression Again
FTFY
It’s like he is purposely doing this to punish Americans for not reelecting him in 2020.
Krasnov is doing it because he is a Russian asset and this hurts Russia’s enemy
I think it’s worse than that. I think he legitimately thinks this is a good idea, and the sycophants that surround him are too afraid to oppose him.
No, it’s worse than even that. The sycophants surrounding him fall into two camps: the uber-wealthy who want to buy businesses, houses, everything for a song, and see this as a golden opportunity since they have more than enough wealth to ride this out; and the loons who believe the end times are almost upon us and will let Trump do whatever he wants as long as he triggers the Rapture.
Really, there’s three groups, because there’s also a small subset (Zuckerberg is one of them, Elon is another) who fall into both camps. They dream of the day that the world implodes, the governments dissolve into chaos, the environment turns horrible and hostile.
Then they will retreat into their lavish bunkers (Zuckerberg’s is in Hawaii) with their servants and security guards (their loyalty guaranteed by shock collars and their families being held hostage) and wait for everything to subside. And then they will emerge with their loyal army to build their perfect paradise, with them at the head of it, of course.
Seriously, they write long think-pieces and even whole books about this stuff.
If they say 60% odds when it’s obviously 100%, how does one go about making money on the spread?
The reason is that Trump can reverse the tariffs tomorrow. Or a court could freeze them if it rules trump acted illegally.
But it does seem that they might be doing some serious insider trading on the market’s volatility. Its funny that until 2024 this was illegal. But the supreme court wanted this. So here we are.
Even if he would reverse the tariffs, the rest of the world is tired of this shit! The US showed that they are no reliable partner and always 4 years away from a possible circus.
I think the reason it’s not 100% is that Trump could say “lol jk guys I’m not actually going to destroy the world economy to own the libs” or Congress could theoretically stop it (lol) but yeah I think it’s probably optimistic because even if the tariffs don’t go into effect the chaos caused by them is already happening. I work in chemical manufacturing and the outlook seems very bleak, but most of my coworkers are Trumpists so they’re just in denial about how bad it’s going to be while management is tiptoeing around the fact that they’re already laying people off because of Trump’s expected antics.
There’s a ‘Recession this year?’ market on kalshi that is somehow also giving about 60% odds. I’m feeling good about my $20 bet.
Forex? If you have USD, you could change it to EUR for example. You could also buy bonds or crypto or whatever, though US bonds might be falling too.
Personally I just keep all my money in funds and robo-advisors. This way there’s someone whose job it is to allocate the money, and they hear the news and can act faster than you.
This is against what crypto bros are saying, but from what I see that whenever stock is crashing so is Bitcoin.
That’s the thing here. Bitcoin is holding up fairly well so far
If it can prove that it returns better gains than stocks AND weathers downturns better than stocks. Well…
Btc is range bound same as it’s been for months now if looking at the euro or cad. Hardly a crash but some folks are cashing out for sure, driving prices down.
Are you certain that the samething isn’t going to happen to foreign currencies? I feel like the U.S. enters recession, the global economy enters recession.
Are there any economies that are truly self-sufficient?
The rest of the world is hopefully coming together a bit and doing trade without the US.
Are there any economies that are truly self-sufficient?
China is trying. I feel like at least some industries there would be fine even if the US collapses.
Considering just how massive China is, they probably have the best shot at a truly independent “internal world” economy
Traditional wisdom says bonds go up when stocks go down, but I don’t even trust T bills right now. Those are the most reliable security there is. Well, were.
When we are almost all living in shacks with nothing left MAGA will be telling us we are better off.
“I’m so glad things are going back to the way they should be!” -my hyper-republican boomer coworker, this afternoon
“Jesus lived in poverty and he did alright.” - A (thankfully former) coworker who disagreed with my assertion that minimum wage should be livable.
Jesus was also murdered by his government, Ian! That’s not what I’d call alright!
Yeah, but then he came back from the dead, became an instant celebrity, struck it rich from crypto, and had like 4 yachts for each of his girlfriends. Don’t you read the bibble?
The people are just garbage. The worst kind of ignorant shit that plagues this country.
You gotta remember this was DECADES of conditioning. These people have been primed for this from birth. For this moment in time, when they could gleefully collapse anything positive remaining about being American.
Don’t make excuses for idiocy. Many of us grew up in those same places with the same ideas you’re talking about constantly thrown at us and we could see this for what it was long before now. Those people don’t see it because they don’t want to and that’s not anyone’s fault but theirs.
Sure, but there is also the true history of coordinated effort. A lot of people had a lot to gain by making sure a particular generation got brainwashed, and the rest of us are feeling the effects - if you think you’re immune to propaganda, then it’s already too late.
Lots and lots of brainwashing happening in other generations, too. At this point the “boomers” are not the biggest problem.
Boomers and decendants thereof.
lots of weirdos who are happy that certain groups get fucked a little more than they will
I really hope your coworker is in their late 50s or 60s so they get the full dose of ‘the way things should be’
“Man if it’s this bad under Trump imagine how bad it would have been under Kamala!” Or “At least we kept men out of women’s sports!” I think people who think this will impact Trump’s popularity at all with his core base are delusional and haven’t been to a Trump district. These people will never abandon him. Their devotion to Trump is like a religion. Even if Trump said Christianity is a false religion and all the Christians are stupid for voting for him a decent number of these morons would keep supporting him because everyone is a Trump whisperer and everything he says that they like is true and everything he says that they don’t like is a joke or trolling. There is no God but Trump, and Fox is His Prophet.
You know, your comment just made me wonder, what happened to this Q bullshit? I’m gladly not American, so I sincerely have no clue.
QAnon was the precursor to MAGA. It depended on stories of “deep state conspiracy” to sow distrust in the functional parts of US government, then quietly disappeared once its function was performed.
All this to say, it was a blindingly obvious psy-op that rolled up as many idiots as it could into one giant katamari ball of civil unrest, then loosed that ball toward US elections in a specific effort to remove Democrats from power.
It kind of fell apart when Trump lost in 2020 and Q (a.k.a. Ron Watkins) stopped posting after Jan 6. QAnon style beliefs are pretty mainstream in conservative circles now, but QAnon as an organized set of beliefs kind of fell apart without continuous revelation from Q himself. It’s kind of funny, Q actually posted again a couple years after and nobody really cared because they had sort of moved on. The QAA podcast (formerly QAnon Anonymous) put forth a theory that QAnon arose as a way to explain why Trump wasn’t actually making America great again even though he was president, and so it’s possible that it will come back in the second president. I think it’s definitely possible.
