Don’t get all condescending about something you’re clueless on if you don’t like being called out on it.

I’m talking about what the headline of the article here says.

The leaders are only leaders because the unincarcerated members of the gangs listen to them and do what they say. They only do that because they believe the gang leaders have power and influence. Part of that, now, is protection for gang members who get locked up. How long do you think those leaders are going to remain leaders when everyone knows they made a deal with Bukele that Bukele isn’t living up to? Not long.

Words do have meaning. And the meaning of the word “milk” has included plant milk for at least 800 years.

I don’t like when people with 0 understanding of the context or history of something act indignant about something they are so clearly and demonstrably wrong about.

Wow, are you so incredibly far off.

No, I think that proving one guy in CECOT has died brings into question the treatment of everyone else in CECOT, including gang members the leaders of the gang do care about.

Proscriptive definitions aren’t how language works, and never have been.

This:

The reality is that Trump’s psychos find loopholes, and they have one now.

Directly contradicts this:

We can either deal with the illegal nature of what happened to get innocent people kidnapped to El Salvador in the first place (Boasberg is working on that), or we can deal with the actual political influence of the Democrats, which isn’t much but a whisper and bet at this point.

The fascists aren’t going to bow down and accept defeat just because a judge orders them to or Democrats vote really hard in Congress. They don’t play by the rules. If/when Boasberg finds them in contempt and orders they send someone to El Salvador to bring people back, they’ll ignore him and probably find a way to get him out of office. Democrats have already shown all their political “power” is completely impotent. It’s not that it “isn’t much but a whisper and bet,” it’s non-existent. There is NOTHING we can do to help these people just by sticking to the rules of how politics are normally done.

I am talking about making Bukele feel less safe. You do that by directly challenging the base of his power. The base of his power is fear of getting sent to CECOT. Challenge that. Prove that people can go there and get people out of it. All they’ve been doing so far is political theater.

The US government, like all governments, is comprised of individual people with varying motivations. The person asking for his return is not part of the executive branch, which is what’s paying to keep people in CECOT.

A sitting Senator who is a member of the minority opposition party is asking for him to be returned. The US administration is paying the Salvadoran government to keep him there. The VP of El Salvador told Senator Van Hollen that if the US embassy asked for him to be released they would release him.

I didn’t make the agreement. It’s been widely reported on.

The US treasury said that an investigation into government officials and gang leaders revealed the secret negotiations. Luna [chief of the Salvadoran penal system and vice-minister of justice and public security] and Marroquin [chairman of the Social Fabric Reconstruction Unit] allegedly “led, facilitated and organized a number of secret meetings involving incarcerated gang leaders, in which known gang members were allowed to enter the prison facilities and meet with senior gang leadership”.

In addition to financial benefits for the gang members, incarcerated leaders received special treatment in the prisons, including access to mobile phones and sex workers. It said Luna also negotiated support from MS-13 and Barrio 18 gangs for Bukele’s national quarantine during the Covid-19 pandemic.

It sounds like the gang leaders who negotiated with Bukele’s regime are incarcerated themselves. And it’s not just prisoners in CECOT who are getting better conditions. It’s incarcerated gang members all over the country.

I want somebody to do something more than a photo op. Yes, Bukele is an authoritarian just like Trump. But Trump relies on a large amount of his base thinking that he’s in the right. I don’t believe he nor Bukele want the optics of concentration camp guards assaulting a bunch of members of the US Congress. And I don’t believe that a bunch of concentration camp guards would be willing to assault them on livestream to the entire world.

Show up with bodyguards. They don’t need to be armed, but be physically intimidating and insist that they’re going to enter and find the Americans who are being wrongfully detained.

All the Democrats, or really anyone in opposition to Trump, have been doing is playing it safe. If nobody is willing to take risks then the fascists will never feel threatened. If they had the balls to try what I suggested, one of two things will happen. They guards could get violent and assault, arrest, or even kill some members of the US Congress. That would spark outrage in the US. The opposition to Trump would grow and there would be even more motivation to stop him from sending people to foreign gulags.

More likely, IMO, the guards would back down and the members of Congress would prove that Bukele and Trump aren’t as all powerful as they want to seem. They’d also get live video inside CECOT to show the world exactly how horrendous it is.

The word ‘milk’ in the English language has been used to describe plant-based milks for at least 800 years. Soy milk and Almond milk as beverages have been around for at least 1000 years.

You’re ahistorical proscriptive definition is just bullshit gatekeeping. You are wrong and should feel bad about yourself over it.

I disagree.

Uh… how exactly are any of them pushing back on anything right now?

It’s not unlikely that they are just murdering the inmates

I do think that’s rather unlikely. After Bukele came into power promising a massive reduction in violent crime he met with the leaders of all the major gangs in El Salvador. He asked them tor reduce violent crime in exchange for payoffs and a promise of improved conditions for prisoners. Within 2 years of that agreement violent crime in El Salvador reached the lowest point it’s been in 30 years. If it comes out that prisoners in CECOT are dying, that agreement disappears and violent crime skyrockets. That would completely undermine Bukele’s basis of support.

Americans are absolutely calling the shots here. That’s why El Salvador has him and is keeping him: because the US government is paying them to do so.

I think he is still alive. Bukele made agreements with the leaders of all the major gangs in El Salvador to get them to reduce violent crime. In exchange he gave some money and concessions as to how prisoners would be treated. If it comes out that prisoners are dying in CECOT, the gangs are going to treat that as Bukele breaking their agreement and violent crime will shoot up.

Even if he’s still alive, though, there’s a 0% chance he, or anyone else Trump sends there, will ever come out of CECOT while Bukele or Trump is still in power. It would completely undermine so much about their regimes at this point. They are using CECOT as the ever present existential threat against opposition. It’s supposed to be a black hole people go into and never leave. They can’t let anyone out ever or it proves that people can get out. They don’t want anyone to believe that is possible. They can’t let anyone believe that is possible or it’ll breed massive opposition in both countries.

I think 14 (ish) of them were actually charged with a crime, although none of them had a trial, let alone were found guilty and sentenced. And even if they were found guilty of something, I’m pretty sure locking someone up indefinitely in a foreign torture prison/slave labor camp qualifies for the 8th Amendment’s prohibition on “cruel and unusual punishment.”

There is no legal or moral justification for sending even the most hardened convicted criminal there.

They need to stop this 1 at a time thing. Get like 40 members of Congress, Senators and Representatives. Show up at CECOT with cameras live streaming and demand to be admitted. When they refuse, force your way in.

I don’t believe anyone in El Salvador, including Bukele and the goons staffing the prison, want to have a live stream of them assaulting/arresting a bunch of US members of Congress. And if they do, maybe that’ll help wake some Republican voters up to the fascism.

There’d be motherfuckers on TikTok snorting lines of asbestos