The New York Times editorial board is wrong. Principled progressive politics on the Bernie Sanders model is still the path forward.
There is a very simple political narrative, repeated ad nauseum, that goes something like this:
The average American does not like “extreme” politicians of the right or left. As the right becomes more extreme, Democrats should “occupy the center lane,” offering “moderate” solutions with broad appeal. If they become too “extreme,” they will alienate the average voter. They should therefore retreat from excessively “progressive” positions, proving themselves to be the “reasonable” alternative to the right. When Democrats lose, it is because they have “gone too far left,” and they must return to the sensible, careful, reasonable center in order to win.
(I use quotes because I think all of these terms need to be questioned rather than accepted at face value.)
This is, roughly, the thesis of the New York Times editorial board’s recent article “The Partisans Are Wrong: Moving to the Center Is the Way to Win,” which makes a forceful argument that Democrats must abandon progressivism for the sake of stopping Donald Trump. Not only is centrism pragmatic, the Times argues, but the need to stop the right is so urgent that Democrats have no choice but to embrace centrism. There is simply no alternative.
The case the Times editorial board makes for the political efficacy of centrism is unpersuasive, which I will get to. But before I do, let me first object to the terms of the debate. The question the Times answers is, effectively: are Democrats more likely to win elections on centrist or progressive platforms? The unstated premise of the piece is that Democrats should do whatever makes them most likely to win elections, and so if the answer to that question is “they are more likely to win on centrist platforms,” that means they should run on centrist platforms. Whenever we consider a political position, they want us to ask ourselves “how does it poll?”, and not “is it right?” or “is it true?”
This may sound so obviously correct that it does not require defending—what, you don’t want to win elections?—but that is not so. Imagine we are in the year 1960, and a hotly debated political question is whether it should be legal for companies to discriminate on the basis of race. Now imagine we pose the question: “Are Democrats more likely to win elections if they endorse full racial equality or if they hedge on it?” We might find out that Democrats are more likely to win elections if they decline to endorse full equality, because much of the American public is still outright racist.
But that would not lead us to the automatic conclusion that Democrats should not endorse racial equality. In fact, such a conclusion would be highly morally questionable, because it would suggest that vital moral principles are not worth defending if they make it even slightly harder to get elected. To use a more extreme hypothetical, what if the data showed us that candidates who engaged in explicitly racist messaging were more likely to win, because demagoguery works? Would the Times recommend going full racist in order to win? (To be honest, they might.)
The Times argues that the data show “moderate candidates fare a few percentage points better, on average, than otherwise similar candidates,” and because “a few” points can be the difference between winning and losing, this is a sound argument for consistently remaining centrist. But that is so only if you don’t care much about the stances you are abandoning by embracing centrism. This is easy for the Times, because they hold centrist values, and do not appear to feel any inner conflict about abandoning, say, immigrants and trans people for the sake of winning elections. But to those of us who think immigrant rights and trans rights are important in the same way as Black civil rights, showing that defending the marginalized might cost “a few” percentage points in swing districts does not provide proof that we should ditch the issue. Instead, accepting the empirical finding would lead us to a different conclusion: we simply have to work harder to win elections, because the path of justice is more challenging than the path of expedience.
Continuing to get fucked out of affordable healthcare and housing while we pay for endless wars is not “winning”
Ross Douthat cant even choose which conservative Christian sect to follow let alone still call himself anything approaching a liberal. Hes a monarchist who pretends to like democracy when hes in mixed political company.
the same paper that supports palestinian genocide and the genocide of trans people is wrong about politics?! the times is another propaganda mill that is fine getting people killed. don’t play their word games, share their recipes, click their links. fuck the nyt.
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They’re not wrong, they’re lying.
Americans need to realize the centre is actually 2 miles left of their “extreme left wing”.
Left wing Americans are also dumb as hell for calling themselves democratic socialists and not social Democrats.
That’s what I’m saying. Free healthcare, affordable housing, get prices under control. These are the things almost everyone wants
This is where I think praxis gets in the way. You have to meet people where they are, and they’re not ready for a new ideology or to learn a new analytical lens to view the world
People are ready for change though. They’ve had enough of corruption and profiteering of their suffering. They overwhelmingly want what leftists and progressives want, they need to be shown that progressive candidates will actually deliver when elected
But… WHO’S going to fix costs! How are they supposed to do it.
I think instead of chanting “free health care”, someone needs to sit down and figure out the costs to free health care on an average basis and then look at what the average person pays currently, and see how that compares.
If, for example, the Gov says “hey, we’ll tax you $500/mo for this healthcare” but its benefits are actually decent, and the average person pays $700 anyway, you’d get a lt more people on board with concrete info. If you could choose $500 for basic and $650 for higher coverage or something, maybe that’s a better way to go.
Affordable housing means creating laws to ban and block corporations from “investing” in real estate as well as foreign entities. That’d help free up housing, help with ownership vs tenant/renting.
Wanting something is one thing, sticking to change is another, and both sides are corrupt with money. I think it’ll be harder than it looks!
I think instead of chanting “free health care”, someone needs to sit down and figure out the costs to free health care on an average basis and then look at what the average person pays currently, and see how that compares.If, for example, the Gov says “hey, we’ll tax you $500/mo for this healthcare” but its benefits are actually decent, and the average person pays $700 anyway, you’d get a lt more people on board with concrete info. If you could choose $500 for basic and $650 for higher coverage or something, maybe that’s a better way to go.
This is demonstratively not correct… You think no one has crunched the numbers? It’s been done so many times
How about we all pay nothing, and everyone gets full and free access to healthcare?
Turns out, the government would save money. Emergency rooms legally can’t turn away people, and the amount of unpaid emergency care costs more than actually giving everyone healthcare. It’s not even close
This doesn’t really win undecided people over though. They don’t actually care about the numbers… They don’t believe it. Because they don’t trust the people presenting the numbers, and they’re not going to dig through the numbers themselves
Affordable housing means creating laws to ban and block corporations from “investing” in real estate as well as foreign entities. That’d help free up housing, help with ownership vs tenant/renting.
Yeah, that’s part of the plan, along with cutting back the insane amount of zoning and regulation that makes affordable new housing so financially difficult to materialize. It’s not an unknown problem
The questions you’re asking have been answered, over and over. So why don’t you know the answers to these questions already?
It’s because it’s bad messaging. It’s just not an effective method of getting people on board. It doesn’t stick in people’s heads.
You probably are doubting my assertions even now, right? I’d love to be wrong, please tell me if I’ve convinced you though this type of messaging and I’ll reevaluate it’s effectiveness
The questions you’re asking have been answered, over and over. So why don’t you know the answers to these questions already?
Because they’re a yang account for the center party, or whatever the fuck it’s called now.
So the point isn’t to know things is to cast doubts on actually fixing issues.
Examples see them blaming er costs on government insurance and then correctly pointing out insurance buys politicians but as a reason why universal Healthcare won’t work
I’d love to be wrong, please tell me if I’ve convinced you though this type of messaging and I’ll reevaluate it’s effectiveness
You say that these questions have been answered repeatedly, but didn’t provide a link to any political candidate that brought it up during the last election cycle. I can easily find Republicans talking about how Medicare For All is too expensive, but I have a hard time finding the opposite.
Why would I bother? It’s bad messaging. I don’t believe any amount of sources would satisfy you
But another kind poster provided a link, El-Sayed did so this election cycle, exactly as requested. Sanders has been making these presentations for decades as well, I’m sure you could find those easily if you want to
And I don’t know why you put that qualifier of “this election cycle” on it… These midterms have been a blowout for progressives, doesn’t the fact that they won without making the details of a Medicare for all plan front and center prove my point?
It’s simply bad messaging. It does not win new people over, it only informs the people who already support healthcare reform that it’s even cheaper and simpler than we imagined it would be
I’m sorry, I thought you were sincere with that bit I quoted! I’m highly in favor of M4A, and have many critiques on how we can more effectively talk about it.
Oh, I was entirely sincere. Had you been convinced, or at least conditionally convinced, I would’ve responded very differently
Instead you asked for strangely specific proof… And then followed up to explicitly confirm you weren’t sincere
My entire point was your “advice” on how to win people to the cause was bad messaging. Now you’ve revealed you don’t believe in the cause at all
What kind of idiot takes strategic cues from people who want them to fail?
You didn’t look. At all. First result. https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/making-case-medicare-all-abdul-el-sayed-podcast-transcript-ncna922911
I don’t see how healthcare for all could be done for “free” the way current systems are setup. My last ER visit was over $12,000 and insurance helped, but I don’t see how the Gov could afford that without some “insurance” plan themselves… If that’s the case, they’re getting ripped off and therefore have more waste in spending. It’s a huge undertaking too many would/could take advantage of; and could be years before anyone caught.
The reason your ER bill was $12k is because of healthcare math
The insurance company will agree to pay, say 40% of the bill. They’ll expect you to pay a smaller percentage, say 10%, and the hospital eats the rest of the cost
So that $12k figure is an amount no one ever pays. If you were self pay, if you simply ask them for an itemized bill you’ll get back something lower. If you even slightly negotiate, you might end up paying like 30% of that lower bill
As for how it all becomes “free”? There’s a lot of people who can’t or won’t pay the $2500 or whatever the hospital needs to cover your care, pay their people, and keep the lights on
So all the unpaid emergency bills go through healthcare math again. The government may pay 60% of the money the hospital gets back, and the hospital is expected to eat the rest. So the bill needs to be inflated so the hospital makes money off this care
It’s all financial bullshittery, but at the end of the day the government pays huge amounts for all the people who use the ER as their primary medical care
If a homeless man has a heart attack, that could be $50-80k the government pays a part of
That same heart attack could likely have been prevented for a few hundred dollars of doctor time/tests, and then a $4 per month prescription
TLDR: it didn’t cost the hospital anywhere near $12k for your visit, and no one is expected to actually pay 12k. Emergency care is still expensive though, and the government basically pays for that
Instead of paying for the uncovered ER care, preventative care is really really cheap.
https://hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb311-ED-visit-costs-2021.pdf
According to that, in 2021 the federal government paid 80 billion in ED (emergency department) treat and release. That’s only part of the *free" money the government could instead use towards preventative care
I understand the visit didn’t actually cost that. But a huge part of the reason it got to that point in the first place was a for-profit healthcare system supplemented by the Gov paying for a portion too!
It’s like having your cake and eating it too. You should either have the Gov fund it, or is for-profit and private. Just like the higher education got gov grants and scholarship money, everyone thought “free money” so costs increased and eventually went sky high, ultimately costing students more money.
It didn’t cost $12,000. It was priced at $12,000.
There is a reason 3/4 countries on the planet, and every single developed country on the planet all have some type of public healthcare. When you take the profit out of a monopoly, the price drops so drastically it becomes affordable.
Good luck trying to dissolve a trillion dollar industry that employs thousands (insurance companies), and a lot of wealthy leadership fund politicians.
It’s an uphill battle, not that it’s impossible… But we need to take the country by storm. Like the dems did with the Senate, but start taking over mayors, governors, and eventually presidency so that we supplant the system with a newer better one!
Both sides are not the same amount or types of corrupt. That’s like saying a jay walker and a murderer are both criminals.
I think we need to get to the enlightened level of both sidesism
Both sides are really bad. But there’s not two sides, there’s two terrible parties, and then there’s individuals people. These individual people who are not subservient to capital can make a difference
Correct!
Why are you relying on the falsehood there are only 2 sides? That’s what the
crooked ultra wealthy classmainstream media tells you to believe, to distract fromclass warfare“the other side that’s bad”!
I almost hate these fucking snakes more than maga, at least maga owns their ugly and does it overtly. These fuckers are covert snakes in the grass.
Is this the same NYT that lets companies write articles and pretends they are from real journalists?
“Exxon Mobil’s relationship with the New York Times is a case study in how the fossil fuel industry’s climate denialism has evolved over the past 20 years. Beginning in the 1970s, Exxon Mobil published an “advertorial” every Thursday on the New York Times editorial page.”
https://theintercept.com/2019/10/31/exxon-mobil-massachusetts-climate-change-lawsuit-greenwashing/
We could recall the NYT fabricating rape allegations against Hamas in october 7, not calling out biden’s blood libel forcefully if at all when he falsely claimed they beheaded 40 babies and he saw the footage of it, then never corrected himself, and the like.
They have long equated criticism of the country’s actions with bigotry against jews, or salmon or some shit I forget how they put it.
They have no credibility, as a former reader of the times, religiously, I fucking hate them now, for 8 years I fucking hate them.
FYI, this article and the NYT article it’s referring to both seem to be a year old.
We call that validation.
We’ve been pursuing this centrist strategy since the oligarchy seized control of it as per their long game to overthrow democracy agreed to in the Business Roundtable of 1971.
That the times still argues this, despite hillary, biden, kamala, removes ANY credibility they might have had left. They are the ENEMY. They don’t understand the situation, but they think they do because they went to Ivy League schools, (and probably fucked some children with Epstein that Israel now has the recordings of.)
There is no reasoning with them, they are delusional, arrogant, and think they are smarter than all of us.
Popular reform is the only way out of this. But silver lining, these aristocrats running the Times will lose their standing and wealth along with everyone else if we keep following their model, if not end up in federal prison and their assets seized by the feds.
Centrists just saying shit. They’re never going to admit that they are wrong. They need to be beaten and ignored.
First, that pic in the thumbnail is Ross Douthat, a MAGA chode who regularly spews out fantastical right-wing propaganda regurge for NYT. He didn’t write this article and he wasn’t named in the linked NYT piece, but seeing his face next to anything tells me it’s likely absolute shit. It’s like seeing Laura Loomer’s or Elon Musk’s face next to an editorial: hard NO.
Second, the New York Times is first and foremost a paper for the billionaires of New York. Much like the Wall Street Journal, and its editorials have gone the exact same way: farther and farther to the right, cherry-picked and to the specific end of telling the billionaires what they want to hear. Both papers are great on facts, but look carefully at how those facts are situated, for whom, to what end – and how much got left out that would have created a balanced look.
Read whatever you want, but with mainstream media it’s good to know the history and proven goals of that organization before assuming anything is true.
EDITED to clarify I actually like this article and agree with much of it; I was referring to the NYT article and columnist that this article is rebutting, and failed to clearly say so. Apologies for the confusion.
He didn’t write this article and he wasn’t named in the linked NYT piece, but seeing his face next to anything tells me it’s likely absolute shit.

When your legs don’t work like they used to anymore, it’s probably because you don’t have a backbone.
Positioning yourself in the middle on every subject, regardless of context, doesn’t make you the voice of reason. When you can hear both sides and stick your head in the sand, sitting on the fence drives a wedge up your hole. There’s no two sides to genocide. There’s no nuance in torturing bystanders.
no one anywhere is excited to vote for means tested health care. It would require some advanced statistics to make the case they outperform good progressive candidates.
Yeah, means testing will only make going to universal health care – the real goal – far more complex than it needs to be. I suspect it is just another way to try to delay any real change by moving the goal posts and throwing a few more wrenches into the works.
Video essay version here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB2a1EAAl0Q









