Basically the ml owners are the lemmy mods who also own the grad instance.
They are terrible people and it got this far because lemmy was the alternative to reddit that wasn’t filled with racism, transphobes and incels, so people with good intentions stuck and cheered for lemmy to develop while they hosted their own instances with their own rules so at least they didn’t have to tolerate the lemmy devs, hexbear and their trolls too much.
By this point there is kbin (or mbin? i keep forgetting) and piefed, there’s no need to support lemmy in anyway anymore, hence why there are more and more instances defederating from ml altough some still federate with them like dbzer0 (but they also federate with hexbear).
The next step should be hosts migrating to piefed or kbin and app devs dropping lemmy support, the first one is already happening in some instances, the later one not yet.
I see… Yikes. I know nothing about those other projects and I’ll look them up, but are they forks of Lemmy handled by different people, or just front ends TO Lemmy? Apologies if I’m missing something obvious.
I think what you got mixed up is the software side and moderation. You can use the same software as .ml and have nothing to do with it. It’s called instance and there are many. This isn’t just front end. There are different front ends (apps, web, …) as well but that’s a different story.
You are on pawb.social as you most certainly already know. That’s hosted and handled by different people than .ml. It’s just the same software and the software isn’t the problem
And since the software is free, no one profits from it. As an instance, it can choose to federate with .ml and even if (as my instance does, don’t know about yours), there is no guilt by association in my opinion. Being federated means you can see their content and they see yours but yours is moderated by your mods alone.
So they technically aren’t forks since the software is the same but they are still handled by different people because they are exact copies software side. I hope that makes it clearer.
It’s just the same software and the software isn’t the problem
I disagree, the devs and ml/grad hosts can decide which things to improve, mantain or force into the other instances, I think there were plans to hardcode the ml federation into it (saw it in a post that was removed for a different reason so I hope someone else kept the screenshot) because too many instances were defederating from them.
There’s also the devs keeping the blocking function half-assed so nobody can fully block ml/grad content.
They claim donations for the Lemmy software are not used to help their hosting of ml or grad, but they have proven to lie and be malicious, so there’s no reason to believe them.
Also using their software is helping them stay sort of relevant to the fediverse and nobody wants assholes to be relevant.
At any rate, there are already better alternatives that aren’t linked to propagandists, transphobes and history revitionists, so why not use something better?
Sorry I’m only getting back to this now, but thank you! I do understand instances and whatnot, but I guess my question boils down to this: if the whole of Lemmy somehow gets influenced by the shitty views of some or all of the devs (I’m not sure how many there are), and a fork is needed, does that bring down all of the instances and existing infrastructure of Lemmy with it? Like, the existing instances won’t be able to upgrade to the latest version, and then if they use the fork instead, will that screw with other things? I guess this is a question for a programmer, but it’s on my mind lol
Do you see u/[email protected]’s comment? Because they made quite a good argument. Software isn’t as neutral as I made it look. There are features like blocking entire instances that can benefit different instances differently and I don’t think it’s coincedence that they promise and don’t deliver on it. Also they do claim donations for software and hosting but how much they need and how much they get is anyone’s guess. This is all basically a TLDR of this comment.
Ahh I see. So while there are multiple instances of Lemmy, all of which are under the shitty devs’ thumbs at the end of the day, the mentioned Piefed and kbin are totally different things by different people with similar functionality but no bigotry? Or are they just different instances OF Lemmy like I’m posting from right now, in which case, what makes those two special?
Piefed and mbin (I think kbin is dead and mbin the successor) are on the level of lemmy in the sense that they are the software and there are different instances of them. So you don’t just join piefed but you join one instance of piefed.
From my understanding, neither is even a lemmy branch but both are their own software using the more general fediverse protocol (that also includes mastodon and others) so they are compatible, look similar but have different developers.
And protocol refers to the data exchange format in a way. Think of it as a chess computer that outputs moves in the standard notation. Two computers can play chess together no matter how differently they are built and programmed inside as long as they agree on the communication. Same here. You have posts, comments, up and downvotes, … but that’s just the protocol. The program can work very differently. It’s even possible to post from mastodon on lemmy (not the other way around tho because mastodon doesn’t allow it, not for technical reasons) that’s how different software can be and still communicate.
Yeah, I think that makes sense, thanks so much for the explanation. I should ask though, in that case, should I move myself over to one of those services? If so, which do you recommend? My account here is only new so now would be the best time for me to switch.
Basically the ml owners are the lemmy mods who also own the grad instance.
They are terrible people and it got this far because lemmy was the alternative to reddit that wasn’t filled with racism, transphobes and incels, so people with good intentions stuck and cheered for lemmy to develop while they hosted their own instances with their own rules so at least they didn’t have to tolerate the lemmy devs, hexbear and their trolls too much.
By this point there is kbin (or mbin? i keep forgetting) and piefed, there’s no need to support lemmy in anyway anymore, hence why there are more and more instances defederating from ml altough some still federate with them like dbzer0 (but they also federate with hexbear).
The next step should be hosts migrating to piefed or kbin and app devs dropping lemmy support, the first one is already happening in some instances, the later one not yet.
I see… Yikes. I know nothing about those other projects and I’ll look them up, but are they forks of Lemmy handled by different people, or just front ends TO Lemmy? Apologies if I’m missing something obvious.
I think what you got mixed up is the software side and moderation. You can use the same software as .ml and have nothing to do with it. It’s called instance and there are many. This isn’t just front end. There are different front ends (apps, web, …) as well but that’s a different story.
You are on pawb.social as you most certainly already know. That’s hosted and handled by different people than .ml. It’s just the same software and the software isn’t the problem And since the software is free, no one profits from it. As an instance, it can choose to federate with .ml and even if (as my instance does, don’t know about yours), there is no guilt by association in my opinion. Being federated means you can see their content and they see yours but yours is moderated by your mods alone.
So they technically aren’t forks since the software is the same but they are still handled by different people because they are exact copies software side. I hope that makes it clearer.
I disagree, the devs and ml/grad hosts can decide which things to improve, mantain or force into the other instances, I think there were plans to hardcode the ml federation into it (saw it in a post that was removed for a different reason so I hope someone else kept the screenshot) because too many instances were defederating from them.
There’s also the devs keeping the blocking function half-assed so nobody can fully block ml/grad content.
They claim donations for the Lemmy software are not used to help their hosting of ml or grad, but they have proven to lie and be malicious, so there’s no reason to believe them.
Also using their software is helping them stay sort of relevant to the fediverse and nobody wants assholes to be relevant.
At any rate, there are already better alternatives that aren’t linked to propagandists, transphobes and history revitionists, so why not use something better?
Sorry I’m only getting back to this now, but thank you! I do understand instances and whatnot, but I guess my question boils down to this: if the whole of Lemmy somehow gets influenced by the shitty views of some or all of the devs (I’m not sure how many there are), and a fork is needed, does that bring down all of the instances and existing infrastructure of Lemmy with it? Like, the existing instances won’t be able to upgrade to the latest version, and then if they use the fork instead, will that screw with other things? I guess this is a question for a programmer, but it’s on my mind lol
Oh, it’s been a week on my side, sorry.
Do you see u/[email protected]’s comment? Because they made quite a good argument. Software isn’t as neutral as I made it look. There are features like blocking entire instances that can benefit different instances differently and I don’t think it’s coincedence that they promise and don’t deliver on it. Also they do claim donations for software and hosting but how much they need and how much they get is anyone’s guess. This is all basically a TLDR of this comment.
Ahh I see. So while there are multiple instances of Lemmy, all of which are under the shitty devs’ thumbs at the end of the day, the mentioned Piefed and kbin are totally different things by different people with similar functionality but no bigotry? Or are they just different instances OF Lemmy like I’m posting from right now, in which case, what makes those two special?
Piefed and mbin (I think kbin is dead and mbin the successor) are on the level of lemmy in the sense that they are the software and there are different instances of them. So you don’t just join piefed but you join one instance of piefed.
From my understanding, neither is even a lemmy branch but both are their own software using the more general fediverse protocol (that also includes mastodon and others) so they are compatible, look similar but have different developers.
And protocol refers to the data exchange format in a way. Think of it as a chess computer that outputs moves in the standard notation. Two computers can play chess together no matter how differently they are built and programmed inside as long as they agree on the communication. Same here. You have posts, comments, up and downvotes, … but that’s just the protocol. The program can work very differently. It’s even possible to post from mastodon on lemmy (not the other way around tho because mastodon doesn’t allow it, not for technical reasons) that’s how different software can be and still communicate.
I hope that makes sense.
Yeah, I think that makes sense, thanks so much for the explanation. I should ask though, in that case, should I move myself over to one of those services? If so, which do you recommend? My account here is only new so now would be the best time for me to switch.