• agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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    3 days ago

    And when the choices are all false ones?

    Yeah, that was exactly my point.

    Nobody saying that “electoralism is a sham” is saying that’s the “be all end all of their political responsibility.” They just generally have a broader definition of “political responsibility”.

    Yeah that hasn’t been my experience. Especially in the last election cycle, I saw a lot of that supposed strawman. No community engagement, no actual political engagement, no workplace engagement, just “Kamala bad”. People who insisted that not voting or voting third party would send a message. Don’t pretend they don’t exist, I’ve talked to dozens.

    I stand by my statement. All else equal, a liberal who does nothing except vote Democrat is better by far than a “leftist” who does nothing except tell people not to vote Democrat.

    • SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      Yeah, that was exactly my point.

      I don’t see it and that’s why I asked. Could you clarify?

      People who insisted that not voting or voting third party would send a message.

      Ah, I misunderstood your classifications. I would definitely lump those people in with the “liberals who do nothing except vote” crowd, not the “electoralism is a scam” leftists.

      • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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        3 days ago

        Could you clarify?

        The claim was that electoral democracy was a misdirection, my point is that all the effort to manipulate it demonstrates that it is the seat of power, and the oligarchs have merely occupied it.

        I would definitely lump those people in with the “liberals who do nothing except vote” crowd

        Since they’re defined by not voting, they aren’t. They are, materially speaking, equivalent to anti-electoralists. The liberals are at least voting for plausible harm reduction.

        • SinAdjetivos@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          my point is that all the effort to manipulate it demonstrates that it is the seat of power

          That’s not at all what I mean about it being a false choice.

          That’s one hell of a hasty generalization. Putting effort into something doesn’t make it materially valuable or useful. Lawns aren’t a useful cash crop, valuable export or critical infrastructure despite the ludicrous amount of resources spent on maintaining them.

          Since they’re defined by not voting, they aren’t.

          Within the framework of a representative democracy not voting when you don’t have representation is the same as voting for someone who isn’t representative of your interests.

          • agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            Within the framework of a representative democracy not voting when you don’t have representation is the same as voting for someone who isn’t representative of your interests.

            Within the framework of FPTP elections they are different. Voting against the person who is least representative, no matter how marginally, is better than not voting.