Poll released Wednesday shows divisions by age and political lines, with 35% overall saying campaign against Palestinians is genocide
          • MelastSB@sh.itjust.works
            13·
            10 months ago

            Yes, about how champagne must come from the Champagne region of France, otherwise it’s just sparkling wine. I don’t know where the exact quote comes from though

            • krakenfury@lemmy.sdf.orgEnglish
              6·
              10 months ago

              It also references Germany, since the word “genocide” was invented to describe the Nazi crimes against European Jews (the Holocaust).

            • mPony@lemmy.world
              5·
              10 months ago

              champagne must come from the Champagne region of France

              for something that’s been so extensively memed I would have thought Knowyourmeme would have an entry for this. I’m not finding one, though. Even a “research paper” about the subject doesn’t pin down the earliest time it was used in this way.

          • Maggoty@lemmy.world
            3·
            10 months ago

            Yes, to the anti-semite police who will tell you with a straight face that you’re making the Holocaust seem better than it was by calling anything else a genocide.

  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.world
    566·
    10 months ago

    Israel is blocking aid organisations from buying food, water and medicine in israel and transporting it through the Ker Shalom crossing. Forcing everything through the extremely slow Egypt crossing which they are actively holding up. If they wanted to prevent weapon smuggle then they should love it going through Ker Shalom

    I cannot think of a single possible explanation other than israel trying to starve Gazans and commit genocide. How are Americans this brainwashed?

    • Kbobabob@lemmy.world
      202·
      10 months ago

      How are Americans this brainwashed?

      This isn’t limited to the US. What are Israeli citizens doing? Personally i think the US should just stay the fuck out of it and take back whatever stuff we can that we gave them. Cut off support and actively denounce, but they won’t.

        • whoisearth@lemmy.ca
          6·
          10 months ago

          When I was a kid my parents took me to a reservation on the Oak Ridges Moraine which has long since decimated to a fraction of what it once was.

          In it was a box on the wall and above it was printed “the most dangerous animal on the planet” with a hinge to open the box. Inside was a mirror.

          I think about that moment consistently in my life even as a 46 year old.

          My point being you’re right. Each one of us is the problem.

    • myrdinn@lemmy.world
      9·
      10 months ago

      Propaganda. An abysmal education system. Failing social structures. Corrupt media. Networks of the wealthy using their influence to push society in the direction they desire.

  • bedrooms@kbin.social
    6215·
    10 months ago

    Imagine you, your friends and your family get killed and washed away from your land, and 2/3 of US people don’t believe it’s genocide.

    • pjwestin@lemmy.world
      372·
      10 months ago

      Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know. Also, only1/3 of Americans saying this is a genocide isn’t great, but it does represent a huge shift in opinion in a short time. Both our political parties support Israel, our news media doesn’t cover Palestinians very sympathetically, and our education system tells a very favorable version of Israel’s founding (most Americans don’t even learn about the Nakba). I don’t think criticism of Israel has ever been this mainstream (at least in my lifetime).

      • bedrooms@kbin.social
        46·
        10 months ago

        Actually 1/3 said it is genocide, 1/3 said it isn’t, and 1/3 said they didn’t know

        That means

        1. 1/3 believe it’s genocide
        2. 1/3 believe it’s not
        3. 2/3 do not believe it’s genocide
        • pjwestin@lemmy.world
          82·
          10 months ago

          I see what you’re trying to say, but that’s not really true. You could say, “2/3 of people would not say they thought it was a genocide,” but that’s not the same as saying, “2/3 do not believe it’s genocide.”

          It’s a small but important distinction. It’s the equivalent of saying, “1/3 of people are religious, 1/3 of people are atheist, and 1/3 of people are agnostic,” and then trying to say that means, “2/3 of people don’t believe in God,” instead of, “2/3 of people aren’t religious.”

    • Doorbook@lemmy.world
      171·
      10 months ago

      Average Us public have no clue what is going on in their own country, it is actually amazing there 1/3 know at least there is a genocide taking place.

    • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
      1952·
      10 months ago

      Murdering people at a music festival and taking hostages might have an effect on public perception.

      • qdJzXuisAndVQb2@lemm.ee
        297·
        10 months ago

        The problem is, before they wemt on that murdering spree, the western world pretty much ignored their plight, or maybe tutted when they chucked a rocket or two over the border. But any kind of “proper” political solution was flatly ignored. It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I umderstand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude. And look, they actually have a tonne of eyeballs and attention on their shitty situation (and shitty leaders), so maybe something will come of this. Palestinians are paying an exorbitantly heavy price for it, though.

        • grue@lemmy.worldEnglish
          82·
          10 months ago

          It’s not a justification, but I have to say that I understand why that situation led to a “fuck it, let’s just rampage” attitude.

          Reminds me of this.

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
          1517·
          10 months ago

          Sure, but again - if you murder people at a music festival and take hostages, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that terrorists won that one.

          • ???@lemmy.world
            174·
            10 months ago

            Sure, but again, if you indiscriminately kill innocent people in Gaza and destroy the very last university, even if you might have reasons to do so - you can expect quite a lot of people to not be on your side. The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

            • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
              65·
              10 months ago

              Absolutely. Not sure why you would think I don’t understand the hatred Israel is getting.

              The only thing for sure is that Israel won that one.

              Not sure what Israel won, despite making sure there will be another generation of Palestinian freedom fighters with rather questionable methods.

              • ???@lemmy.world
                53·
                10 months ago

                I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.

                I agree, Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.

                • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
                  44·
                  10 months ago

                  I wasn’t making a statement about you, I just wanted to demonstrate the statement can be made in any way.

                  But you were responding to a actual person, me. So it would have helped if you clarified it wasn’t about me - don’t you think?

                  Israel bred the Hamas of tomorrow for sure. But they did win in terms of getting closer to turning Gaza into a settlement.

                  Even that sounds to me like a win for the terrorists - but I can see, people have different view.

                • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
                  12·
                  10 months ago

                  That’s great.

                  Does Hamas ever probe any of their bombings? Does Hamas ever give a warning before it launches rockets into Israel? Does Hamas give a shit if it targets a college or a hospital or a school? Has Hamas ever charged one of its fighters with War crimes?

                  No. If Hamas blows up a coffee shop with 50 kids in it, the bombers family member gets a nice pension, probably paid with Iranian oil money. No warnings. No accountability. Actual indiscriminate killing of civilians.

                  You keep asking me why I credit what the IDF says. Well, they actually have some culture of transparency and see, you credit them, too.

              • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
                2·
                10 months ago

                call the people in the phone first and tell them bombs are coming?

                We do live in a dystopian world after all: “We are pleased to inform you that your house has been selected for a bombing due to acute terrorist threat. Please leave the area immediately. We are thankful for your cooperation.” Only missing Judge Dredd.

                • ???@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  10 months ago

                  “OH yes and you only have 2 minutes to leave… But sometimes we skip the warning because Hamas might find out and flee too… That would ruin our chances of killing the terrorists! Thank you for understanding.”

      • PriorityMotif@lemmy.world
        125·
        10 months ago

        Two wrongs don’t make a right. A county based on abrahamic religion should know that. It just proves that they don’t actually believe in their own religion and only hide behind it whenever it’s convenient for them, like saying anybody who disagrees with them supports Hamas.

        • gapbetweenus@feddit.de
          95·
          10 months ago

          Two wrongs don’t make a right

          Absolutely agree.

          A county based on abrahamic religion should know that

          Dude, have you seen all the shit countries based on abrahamic religions have done through out the history?

          ike saying anybody who disagrees with them supports Hamas.

          And the other side says that anyone disagreeing with them is a genocidal nazi. I would say the whole discussion at this point is rather heated and fucked up.

        • FlowVoid@lemmy.worldEnglish
          44·
          10 months ago

          Which Abrahamic religion are you referring to?

          If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him, fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him. Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, and whoever kills a person shall be put to death. (Leviticus 24:19-21)

    • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
      541·
      10 months ago

      Well, did my family join Hamas and then force me to stay to die as a martyr inside a building that Israel just told us they were going to bomb?

      I think I’d be fine with the US not calling that genocide. If they did I hope they’d at least blame the actually responsible party.

      • GONADS125@feddit.de
        392·
        10 months ago

        There’s no justification for Hamas’ terrorism, nor is their justification for Isreal’s genocide.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          268·
          10 months ago

          They don’t care how loudly you condemn Hamas. Scream it till you’re blue in the face and they’ll just call you a Hamas sympathizer anyway.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
            14·
            10 months ago

            Among the standard litany of accusations, gaslighting, condescension, and abuse that people who support genocide use instead of defending their position. Because they know their pro-genocide position is indefensible.

  • Rapidcreek@lemmy.world
    293·
    10 months ago

    • 67% said a ceasefire should only happen if the hostages are released and Hamas is removed from power

    • 83% said October 7 was a terror attack, including 74% of those aged 18-24

    • 80% said they support Israel over Hamas, including 57% of those aged 18-24

    • 69% said Israel was trying to avoid civilian casualties in the Gaza Strip and 66% said Israel was just trying to defend itself

    • 74% said Hamas’s attack was genocidal

    https://harvardharrispoll.com/

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
      439·
      10 months ago

      this is depressing.

      I’m not going to comment on whether or not Hamas’ attack was genocidal, because even if they meant it to be, I just don’t they have the capability. but like… Israel is bombing fucking hospitals and refugee camps inside the strip. That’s not how you go about “avoiding civilian casualties”.

      the only side worth supporting here are the civilians caught in the middle.

        • BreadstickNinja@lemmy.worldEnglish
          235·
          10 months ago

          Israel also uses human shields and they have been at the core of its expansion policy for decades. They call them “settlers.”

          This double standard pisses me off more than just about anything else about the conflict. Israel is the undisputed champion of using civilians as cover for its military and expansionist goals.

          And before anyone tries to claim this bullshit that they are acting without the authority of the state, first tell me who Netanyahu put in charge of settlement policy.

        • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
          2312·
          10 months ago

          Israel tells you this and you just take their word for it.

          Al Shifa was supposed to be a Hamas command center. Israel promised us it was a command center, they gave us audio recordings as proof, they had a whole mockup of the suspected underground facilities.

          There wasn’t shit, just a sub basement Israel dug.

          Stop believing Israel.

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
          157·
          10 months ago

          you’re not wrong.

          but we’re still waiting for proof that Hamas has used a hospital as a base of operations.

          another thing everyone knows: The IDF lies.

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
              183·
              10 months ago

              And also take hostages.

              Oh. I’m sorry. They detain protestors with no due process and round up more suspects when they make a swap…

        • Ook the Librarian@lemmy.world
          51·
          10 months ago

          Human shields should not be used. Human shields should not be bombed. I know this sounds like enlightened centrism, but it’s pretty clear, only the civilians were innocent. I cannot, simply cannot, support bombing a human shield. There is no point in defending it.

          “Hamas uses human shields and has been for a long time. We know this. Everyone knows this.” only points to a clear bad guy if the human shield isn’t bombed. Never have I uttered one breath of support for Hamas. Using a human shield is deplorable.

          Many different nations expressed support for the US in war efforts after 9/11. That support slowly dwindled as more and more atrocities were reported. Israel is speedrunning support loss.

  • Furedadmins@lemmy.world
    24·
    10 months ago

    If that headline said one third of Americans don’t believe Israel is commiting genocide which is also an accurate from the results it would set a very different tone.

    • FaceDeer@kbin.social
      92·
      10 months ago

      Consider how out-of-touch vast swathes of Americans are on foreign affairs, or even on domestic affairs, and it’s pretty reasonable IMO. I suspect a major chunk of the people answering this don’t even know that anything significant has changed in the past few months and this “genocide/not-genocide” answer is just based on their vague general knowledge of the usual Israel/Palestine interaction.

      Frankly, I think 1/3 answering “genocide” sounds positive to me. That’s enough to perhaps make some politicians think “maybe I can’t wholeheartedly throw complete support behind Israel and not have to worry about it having an electoral impact this time.”

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.worldEnglish
      51·
      10 months ago

      I’m guessing there are people who know it’s a genocide, support it because it’s a genocide, but won’t call it a genocide for various reasons.

      Some of them may even be Republicans. The ones I’ve seen mostly scream accusations and abuse if you say that Democrats shouldn’t be supporting genocide.

  • mydude@lemmy.world
    81·
    10 months ago

    “believe”… Even ‘positive’ articles sneaks in some doubt in the headline. At least dobt your lyin’ eyes, you pleb.

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.worldEnglish
      0·
      10 months ago

      way down at the bottom here::

      opt in polling from web based “interview”. So, probably. nobody even remotely tech savy (aka has an ad blocker) ever participated. but anyhow… here’s what pew research has to say about the effects of interview mode:

      Where differences occurred, they were especially large on three broad types of questions: Items that asked the respondent to assess the quality of their family and social life produced differences of 18 and 14 percentage points, respectively, with those interviewed on the phone reporting higher levels of satisfaction than those who completed the survey on the Web.

      Questions about societal discrimination against several different groups also produced large differences, with telephone respondents more apt than Web respondents to say that gays and lesbians, Hispanics and blacks face a lot of discrimination. However, there was no significant mode difference in responses to the question of whether women face a lot of discrimination.

      Web respondents were far more likely than those interviewed on the phone to give various political figures a “very unfavorable” rating, a tendency that was concentrated among members of the opposite party of each figure rated.

      Statistically significant mode effects also were observed on several other questions. Telephone respondents were more likely than those interviewed on the Web to say they often talked with their neighbors, to rate their communities as an “excellent” place to live and to rate their own health as “excellent.” Web respondents were more likely than phone respondents to report being unable to afford food or needed medical care at some point in the past twelve months.

      ultimately, the legitimacy of the poll would depend on where they solicited their subjects in the poll. You’re likely to get a far different answer with advertisements on Truth Social than you would with advertisements on, lets say, a palistinian-american subreddit. but that wasn’t addressed in the report, so. we’ll never really know.

      • breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca
        0·
        10 months ago

        I don’t think it’s opt-in in that way though. They have a pre-existing list of millions of pre-screened people and they’re selecting a representative sample from that list. Fivethirtyeight ranks them fairly highly among other polls – certainly high enough for this opinion poll to be considered accurate.

        • Hamartia@lemmy.world
          0·
          10 months ago

          Fivethirtyeight only grades them on their ability to predict american election results. I don’t think that’s the same as advocating for their efficacy in producing leading public opinion polls.

          • Telodzrum@lemmy.world
            0·
            10 months ago

            You’re right, kinda. Issue polling is generally better than horse race polling and YouGov is no exception.

            • Hamartia@lemmy.world
              0·
              10 months ago

              It’s a serious issue when there’s a clear political bias in the founders. They put more effort into steering the narrative than objectively reporting it.

                • Hamartia@lemmy.world
                  1·
                  10 months ago

                  If you haven’t seen any clear bias then you probably have a close enough outlook to them to not notice. And that’s fine, I don’t require everyone to have the same opinion as me for their comments to have value.

                  My impression of bias is probably born out of the leading polls that rightwing media and thinktanks in the UK commission them to do. You can fairly argue that these polls are externally commissioned so their tenor is a product of their issuer not yougov. But the overall impression I got was that they could be readily depended on to produce misleading propaganda against labour when it wasn’t being run by corporate technocrats.