The genocide is still ongoing and many things are still developing in Palestine, but we are removing the limitation on only posting things related to the operation Flood of Al-Aqsa to this thread, you can now freely post over Lemmygrad again.
Please don’t stop talking about Palestine.
Due to popular demand, please keep all posts about the operation to this megathread, sitewide.
The zionists funneled the residents of Gaza at the Egyptian border, telling them that’s where they were allowed to escape.
Then they bombed it.
The world is literally watching a holocaust happen. Not just reading about it like in the 40s. But watching it. And liberals are either ignoring it or standing with the ones perpetrating it.
Not a single person who stands with Israel should be allowed to forget what they supported.
Can I get a source? I’d love to show it to the people claiming Israel created a “safe zone”
Settlers deserve nothing but death. All are fascists. All are Nazis. Burn Israel to the ground.
The music festival was one of the most egregious displays of “civilian” settler disregard for Palestinian life I think is even possible. A literal rave on stolen land next to the concetration camp filled with the people they stole that land from. And that is what western media uses as anti-resistance atrocity propaganda.
Read a few interviews from their perspective too. They were all warned that militants broke out of Gaza a few miles away. The audacity to party right next to an open-air concentration camp is one thing. But they also knew there were violent disturbances.
Can’t find the exact article at the moment, so feel free to help me out, but one survivor was quoted saying “This stuff happens there all the time.”
Tinfoil time, but part of me almost suspects that the threat of an attack on the festival could have been underplayed by the IDF, just so they could have propaganda fodder.
In a kibbutz whose primary industry seems to be lasers for the zionist defense industry
Not just reading about it like in the 40s. But watching it. And liberals are either ignoring it or standing with the ones perpetrating it.
They did the same exact thing almost a century ago. It was the Red Army who brought the Holocaust to an end, not the West.
If only we had a Soviet Red Army now…
One of the saddest facts that you can learn as communist about the history of the Palestinian occupation is that the settler colonial army was as successful as it was during the first few decades of its existence thanks to incorporating a large number of Red Army veterans with experience conducting operations on the eastern front in WW2…
Traitors are gonna get whats coming to them
I was off the grid without internet for the past week, and I come back online to find out that the Third Intifada may have started. It’s one of those weeks Lenin told us about. Here’s hoping this is the beginning of something really meaningful to Palestinian freedom.
To no surprise, now that there is a new major human rights catastrophy in the middle east, europeans are more worried about refugees entering their countries than the horrors inflicted on these people.
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Israel has threatened Syria and Lebanon if they enter the conflict that Israel will wipe them off the face of the earth, rumors of the US and Israel discussing joint action if things escalate.
Not fear mongering or anything, but This could very quickly fall into a global conflict. Eyes on the news comrades.
Also a sad reminder the US gave Israel nuclear weapons and it is the known ‘unofficial’ but stated policy of that regime to use their nuclear weapons in revenge strikes should their regime fall or be in significant danger of falling.
Yeah, things went from oh boy hope the US and Russia don’t fight to, oh boy, I hope the entire world doesn’t nuke each other because Israel has to keep being an apartheid, like really really bad, in like 48 hours. Got whiplash at this point.
REMEMBER: the Occupier is unpopular the world over. People by and large stand with Palestine, even in the imperial core. The reason they are trying to outlaw protests for Palestine and supporting Palestine is because the ruling ideas are the ideas of the ruling class, and governments want to make their people think that support for Palestine is lower than it really is.
I managed to go to a protest. It was kind of an accident. I suspected something might be planned and went to the time, on the day, and to the place that protests usually happen. Maybe 200+ people there. Half dressed in Palestine flags. Speeches. Poetry. Songs. Messages passed from relatives in Palestine to share with us.
I’ve been tearing up reading about it all this week. But in person? It was more uplifting than sad. Seeing so many people willing to spend their weekend doing this.
I completely agree, Crit. There’s a good reason they don’t want us to go outside and connect with others, to see that we stand on the side of humanity and that history will prove us right yet again.
The interesting thing was that the police were clearly supportive. I was a bit surprised to see them nodding along with the talks. They didn’t join in the songs and the chanting. But from conversations I overheard, they were supportive. I joined a bit late so stood to one side and I also heard ‘ordinary’ passers by – you know, people who aren’t engaged enough with politics to join a protest – walking past and talking about how bad things were for Palestinians. Seemed like almost everyone walking past was appalled at Israel.
The public stands with Palestine and they know they’re being duped by the press. It lifted my mood significantly because all week I’d been given the impression from the silence of colleagues, my institution, my union, and the noise from the media that I was rather alone. Not so.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
How in the world is the public supportive of Palestine? If they aren’t supportive of communism and general anti-imperialism/anti-colonialism, how are they supportive of Palestine?
the situation in gaza is so precarious and israel commit so many crimes that is very hard to wash everything, so there is that notion that israel isn’t so nice, free and democratic so to speak
We cannot allow Amerikan “news” media to dictate to us where the masses are at. Zionist outlets want us to believe that the Amerikan masses are on board with ethnic cleansing writ large.
I know otherwise reactionary people – coworkers, customers, etc. – who loathe the state of Israel for what it is doing. News media would have us believe that these otherwise reactionary folk are anti-Israel merely because they are antisemitic or some other such hogwash.
This is a litmus test for basic human empathy, and I think more people are passing than failing. The Amerikan news empire does not reflect the will or the ideas of the people, it attempts to shape them. By virtue of their class interests, bourgeois “journalists” are always tailing us and tailing workers.
Anti-imperialist journalists and their outlets like Abby Martin (Empire Files), Brian Becker (The Socialist Program), SomeMoreNews, MintPress News, Multipolarista, and more, are gaining traction and have been for a while. Paywalls and opaque anti-worker rhetoric are making rags like WaPo obsolete to the masses.
We also can’t use astroturfed hellsites like Reddit to guage where people are at. Contrariwise, we shouldn’t necessarily use anecdotal grass-touching evidence as indicative of a larger trend, either. My experience on the ground has been far more akin to comrade @[email protected] than bearing witness to the countrywide cavalcade of [proletarian] Zionist warriors Western news media typically wants us to believe exists, though.
Words cannot describe the rage I am feeling right now. Palestine’s liberation is such a fucking softball, and if people can so easily cheer for their genocide I frankly don’t know what to do with myself in the US.
Apologies for the ‘Dear Diary’ type post, but I really just don’t know how to alleviate this intense feeling.
It’s not just the US. Seeing the people around me either not give a flying fuck about a literal unfolding genocide – or cheering it on… how am I supposed to look these people in the eye again? Help them? Why? I’m sickened by them. Never stop explaining, sure; but how does anyone need this explaining?
If we end up seeing a huge massacre of Palestinians, I will never let these people forget. To not be involved in politics or the news is one thing, but to be and to still support Israel is something deeply troubling and I don’t need to be your friend or family after that.
This is definitely a make or break litmus test for who I want in my personal circle. I still have some friendships with ignorant conservatives. I will even tolerate anticommunist shit-takes from some friends.
I can and will strike from my life any and everyone who “stands” with this fascist project as it genocides an entire nation on live television.
Context on the music festival:
- it took place near the kibbutz of Re’im
- Re’im is the location of the Re’im military base
- the military base is the headquarters of the Gaza Division of the IDF.
- even Wikipedia says the “Re’im Festival Massacre” took place during the battle for the Re’im base.
Can’t imagine rolling face directly between the world’s largest prison camp, and the guards that kept them there.
No shit the militants headed directly for Re’im.
Aight, I’m gonna call it, I’m done looking for sources for now.
I don’t buy:
- that the music festival incident was solely a direct attack on civilians.
- that it was a slaughter with no fighting.
- that the professional army that went through the festival ground was there only to intentionally target civilians.
Every source seems to agree that there were 260+ bodies recovered, with no distinction between idf & civilians. That seems like a pretty low total from the 3500 that were reportedly there.
I’ll buy:
- that militants rolled through the festival and intentionally shot/hurt some number of noncombatants (clearly that’s bad, I’ll admit that).
- that there was some sort of firefight/battle between idf/security and the militants.
I’ve seen lots of video of people running and screaming, with shots in the background, but that’s it.
It’s hard to know what’s real but I saw a video of soldiers ducking and diving between the festival goers while shooting at Hamas.
Oh wow, I haven’t seen that, but it makes sense.
It might be what’s discussed in the article linked below, because there seemed to be a tank at the beginning. Tbh the Israelis seem quite disorganised. It’s not like they’re grabbing civvies to hide behind. More like they’re just as scared as them. That would make sense for people who’ve signed up as security at a festival mainly to watch people dance, break up a few fights, and prevent unarmed people going on a stage. I don’t really know what uniforms the IDF or Israeli police usually wear, though.
Was it the guys in blue with pistols? I saw that one, and I agree with you there.
Yes, that sounds right. They weren’t in camo or anything.
Smarmy piece of shit
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Israel has the better weapons and allies in terms of military power. That’s not always the most important thing, but what are the prospects of Palestina being successful? And what possible allies will they have? I don’t see Iran coming to help anytime soon tbh.
So, the most important answer we have so far to your question is that this appears to have been a massive victory for Palestinian counter-intelligence. If they managed to plan, prepare, and execute this without Israel or any of the 5 Eyes seeing it, then it tells us something profoundly important.
There are second order implications if this is true. The most important second order implication is that if their counter-intelligence is truly that good, then they’re unlikely to have only used it to plan an initial strike. If your counter-intelligence is working that well, then it becomes possible to prepare and plan multiple moves into the future.
Another second order implication is that it is likely that Palestinian counter-intelligence did not develop on its own but instead with support from other actors. That would imply the existence of alliances that are providing some kind of support.
If both of those are true, then the second and third moves that are planned likely involve support from allies. That could be exit routes, it could be material support, it could be geopolitical support through diplomacy, sanctions, and threats.
A lot of this hinges on the assessment that Israeli and 5 Eyes intelligence failed here. If it did, then we are at the beginning of a longer unfolding of events and need to watch carefully to understand what’s going on because if the West failed in this way, the propaganda is going to focus on hiding this failure and its implications.
Media over here already declared it a massive fuck up from Israeli and allied intelligence agencies. I think they actually did mess up. Which, for them, is a pretty worrying sign.
I see the situation as a Warsaw Ghetto Uprising situation. They aren’t meant to succeed. It’s a desperate measure to risk it all for a chance of survival, or die trying.
The Germans had more men who were experienced, veteran soldiers with tanks, and superior weapons; but the Jewish fighters still tried.
It’s a suicide mission, but they’ve accepted the costs. We can only hope for their success.
Coincidentally, I was just thinking about how the Jews in Axis‐occupied Warsaw and the Palestinians today have more common with each other than either of them have with the Zionist ruling class. Perhaps the Warsaw Jews and the Zionist ruling class are closer to each other in terms of heritage, but in what really matters—situations, experiences, circumstances, spirit—it’s no contest: the Palestinians and the Warsaw Jews may as well be literal siblings. As for the Zionist ruling class, personally I’d say that it’s far more akin to the Ottoman Empire’s anti‐Armenian rulers than to Warsaw’s Jews.
As a gentile I tend to be very reluctant to compare anything to the Shoah, and if we want to discuss the technicalities, then yes, the oppression of Palestinians is not a one‐to‐one copy of the Shoah. But at the end of the day, the technicalities hardly matter: the Palestinians remain victims of colonial atrocities. Atrocities similar to what the Native Americans, the Aboriginal Australians, the Armenians, the Libyans, the Ethiopians, the Roma, and others have faced in history. That’s why I made an image of the neocolonial flag with the fascio littorio on it: if anybody finds the comparisons to the Third Reich inappropriate (and I agree that there are important differences…as well as similarities), it would suffice to draw comparisons to another atrocious empire in history instead.
warsaw uprising was very different though, the government of poland was trying to establish an anti-communist government before the soviets got there.
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising was a desperate effort and bloody uprising by Jewish partisans in 1943 in response to the Waffen SS liquidating the ghetto and executing anyone who still remained.
The Warsaw Ghetto Uprising and Warsaw Uprising were two different events nearly a year apart.
I saw Scott Ritter had some interesting insights that MSM, as usual, is missing: Palestinians have much more will to fight. Israelis are a settler nation and most of them have second citizenships they can flee to. Palestinians don’t. For a Palestinian soldier the consequence of surrender is just a slower death than what they’d get if they keep fighting. An Israeli on the battlefield has a lot more to lose from taking any risks compared to fleeing. A Palestinian soldier has nowhere to flee to.
He also noted that if Hezbollah commit as well, all of Israel’s neighbours are gonna see it as a now-or-never chance to finally rid themselves of having a nuclear-armed US puppet on their doorstep; and if they don’t take it and let Israel make a bloodbath of Gaza and the West Bank, they’ll become more stable and consolidated than ever.
In Biden’s speech, he talked about how he spoke to Golda Meir when he was a senator and she told him “We have a secret weapon: we have no where else to go.”
They have a lot more places to go than the people of Palestine.
To add to what you’re arguing, every time Gaza is bombarded, more people are displaced, more people are left without a home, more people are radicalized and therefore the number of members in the militia grows. What is someone, who is physically apt to fight, going to do in such a situation? No home, nowhere to go unless you can somewhat cross half of occupied Palestine. Every member of the militia is nothing but a radicalized civilian, and every civilian is a potential militia member.
Biden first: ‘I totally saw images of beheaded babies!’
White House statement now: ‘Biden did not ever see those images and they can’t be verified’
Libs and others, if you are reading this, please support the right side of history. You are propagandized to hell the same way people were with Iraq, Vietnam, Cuba etc.
Just went to the local Vigil for Palestine but apparently the org canceled it just before the start, because the city didn’t want to give a permit. Still like 150 people showed up to lay flowers and burn candles. Police being the fascist fucks they are started intimidating people mourning a massacre.
Fucking fascists
ACAB is not an exaggeration
Same police that has been trained in Israel btw 🤔
Israel dropped 6000 bombs in the last few days. That’s as much as the US did on Afghanistan IN A YEAR. Afghanistan is 1800x bigger than Gaza.
My city just refused a pro Palestina protest that was planned tomorrow. The same city of which the far right mayor today remembered Israeli victims and called Palestina’s uprising terrorism. The same city of which the police force has recently been trained by the Israeli police force.
The protest is still happening, albeit at a different place. And I’ll be going.
Stay safe, comrade.
Saw your comment about Western laws and such just now. You are right and it makes me a bit nervous for doing things like protest. The governments here are pro Israel and they are making that very clear. It’s what their class interests tell them to do and they have the law and the law enforcement at their side.
But at the same time it’s easy to yell Free Palestina and antifascism when things are relatively quiet. It’s only when things get heated, like now, that these words can get a meaning. And I don’t want to back down despite whatever danger I may face. Because if I do, they win anyway.
It’s hard, isn’t it? I wasn’t sure whether to hit ‘Reply’ on that one as I didn’t want it to be read as ‘don’t openly support Palestine’. We’ve just got to be careful about it. Avoid letting our enemies trap us into publicly supporting ‘terrorist groups’, because that could get you arrested at a protest, for example. Not that our enemies won’t impose a false equivalence on us, anyway.
Keeping it slightly vague should be safe enough, I’d imagine. One of the good things about the performativity of liberalism is that it means some level of performativity is acceptable; and supporting Palestine is a part of that for many. Not for enough people, but for many. Lord knows there are enough crimes committed against Palestinians to protest all day every day about their treatment without needing to weigh up the actions of Hamas at a rally.
My city just refused a protest
Freeze peach
Same mayor who wrote a book about freeze peach, woke and cancel culture btw
I thought the rhetoric in this was interesting:
https://www.npr.org/2023/10/09/1204639253/israel-gaza-hamas-us-citizens-killed
There’s all the passive voice and spin you’d expect, but they specifically quote:
She said that the images of Israeli civilians being killed and taken hostage are disturbing, something many do not want to see. But she said this kind of reaction was “expected.”
“We don’t like to see images like that, but it’s a fight,” Saeid said. “It’s a reaction for what Gazans here living since 2006 and since the occupation started, from 1948, and no one just caring about Gaza.”.
That’s not something I’d expect to read in imperial core media.
There are a lot more westerners that support Palestinians than you’d expect tbh, even in media.
I’ve seen comments about there being no hope for the Western left because of the liberal shittakes on social media.
But PSL and the Stop Cop City movement leaders have fully made it known that they are in complete solidarity with Palestine. Anarchists are as well.
The seeds are here. Don’t be hasty to judge the communist movement in the US by shitty liberals and social democrats bandwagoning online.
I have said this before but for all the reactionary aspects of US society there is still an element there that is quite a bit more radical than we have here in Europe. This partly has to do with the brutal hyper-capitalism having created material conditions for the bottom of society that are relatively worse in the US than in Europe’s social democratic welfare states. There is an interesting contradiction in that the US simultaneously has some of the worst reactionary tendencies due to its settler colonial nature and history, as well as its role as the center of world imperialism, but also one of the populations that is potentially most easily radicalizable among the nations of the imperial core. In Europe the absence of a social base that is as rife for radicalization as the indigenous and black communities in the US, for which current material conditions and historical injustices align to produce a real revolutionary subject, and with European countries having much more homogenous populations there is much less potential for development of revolutionary consciousness. Notable exceptions do exist such as in Ireland or Serbia, in the case of the former due to their specific history of anti-imperialist struggle and for the latter their recent experiences being directly victimized by imperialist aggression, though unfortunately both of these countries are currently governed by neoliberal sellouts.
